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If you could be a geisha in a foreign Okiya would you:
Are you crazy?! Who wouldn't want to!? 45%  45%  [ 23 ]
Nope, too much work. 12%  12%  [ 6 ]
Well.... I'm not sure... 43%  43%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 51
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 Post subject: What do you think about an Okiya outside of Japan?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:00 pm 
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Shikomi
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Has anyone ever thought of actually opening a Okiya with girls from the americas doing the job a geisha's? I met a girls along time ago who was going to try doing that and she'd done alot of research and spoken the geisha mothers and tea houses, and learned alot on what would actually go on. What do you think about it? :bunny:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:13 pm 
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I don't think it would catch on. People like to go clubbing. I don't think they would care to much for Ozashiki. I don't know if most people would understand it all that much. To me I think it would just be a mimicry. That's just my opinion.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:17 pm 
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Shikomi
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But that woould be the point I guess, to bring a vision of their culture to the states. It sounded very nice to me.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:14 pm 
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There is a thing called Kimono-san which is sort of like this. They play games and entertain people. But I just see them as girls playing dress-up.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:56 pm 
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Shikomi
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Ah, well that would be fun as well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:12 am 
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As for kimono-san just playing dress up, I do beg to differ. More then half of all my engagements are for schools and I normally do some sort of educational presentation.

I just started a thread on kimono-san hear is any one is interested http://tsurukomaiko.freeforums.org/the- ... -t162.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:47 pm 
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First Year Maiko
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I TOTALLY agree with that,specially because this idea was mine in the begining XD!! this was the reason for IG ban me XD!! But what i had in mind was an tayuu okya...not giesha...but i guess there´s sapce for everything n.n!!

we can find shamisen teachers,classic odori teachers,everything n.n! I can´t understand why people think it´s "forbiden","ofensive","cheap imitation".

Japanese people imitate all the cultures around the world,noone get ofended,they don´t get ofeneed with westernd gieshas.When the japanese imperor visited Brasil,he asked our present if we had geishas here,and the most surprining: he got said when our present said "no".LOL XD!

see? i guess we will be the patrons of traditional japanese culture in the future because the youngsters of Japan simply doesn´t care about preserving it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:20 pm 
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You got banned from IG for suggesting this? Well that is crazy...They need to get a life...Take a chill pill...

That would be cool to have a sort of Geisha culture in America, however, I would be afraid about how Americans would react to it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:11 pm 
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DameDiabolique wrote:
You got banned from IG for suggesting this? Well that is crazy...They need to get a life...Take a chill pill...

That would be cool to have a sort of Geisha culture in America, however, I would be afraid about how Americans would react to it.


yes,i were called PIMP =/ very strange for people who is in touch with karyukai for such along time....

i´ve been researching for that,what people would think( talking to them online ) but they didn´t seem chocked but interested.They are curious but can´t go to Japan to hire geishas.

If it is done with accurrance and seriuosly,will work out n.n.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:41 pm 
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It would depend on the level of the kimono-san's skill, I would think. Obviously, the woman would have to have a high level of skill to accurately portray a geisha and give the right atmosphere, along with dispelling any misconceptions the guests might have.

An actual okiya might not work, I think, but something a little looser in structure might be interesting. When I was reading Liza Dalby's Geisha, she talked about the geisha of Tokyo, and how they didn't live in the okiya, commuted to work, had their own private lives, and I think that would be more successful in America than a strict Kyoto-like okiya. Instead of an actual house/family relationship, it could be more of an organization.

That's just my 2 yen though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:32 pm 
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Fuyouhime wrote:
It would depend on the level of the kimono-san's skill, I would think. Obviously, the woman would have to have a high level of skill to accurately portray a geisha and give the right atmosphere, along with dispelling any misconceptions the guests might have.

An actual okiya might not work, I think, but something a little looser in structure might be interesting. When I was reading Liza Dalby's Geisha, she talked about the geisha of Tokyo, and how they didn't live in the okiya, commuted to work, had their own private lives, and I think that would be more successful in America than a strict Kyoto-like okiya. Instead of an actual house/family relationship, it could be more of an organization.

That's just my 2 yen though.


hhehhee i ´m not talking about kimono-sans,i´m talking about real geishas,with real long training,etc.talking about investiment possibilities :lol: As i said in an other tread,kimono-san is a nice way to get starte,to "prepair the field" for the geishas in the future.Kimono-sans didn´t set up a training or arts,or even a iki,it´s something generic.I know that DR.B wrote something about it,but actually everything is generic.

Of course,some cultural differences would be considerated,for exemple,i were told that maybe girls woud not agree in living in an okyia.Mayeb we will use koto or taisho koto,or even piano for the musics,maybe we will have to create other dances and put togheter with the traditional ones...many details we will have to study.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:47 pm 
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Shikomi
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Personally I don't think and Okiya outside Japan would fly. Mainly to do with the cultural values and traditions we lack here in the west. There will be of course a small group that will be interested but not big enough to sustain a full operating okiya.

Also since the perception of the people outside Japan still see a geisha as a prostitute (and MoaG didn't change that) it is a difficult task.
So for now I think playing Maiko make-believe is the only realistic goal to be achieved.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:58 pm 
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Katsuragi wrote:
Personally I don't think and Okiya outside Japan would fly. Mainly to do with the cultural values and traditions we lack here in the west. There will be of course a small group that will be interested but not big enough to sustain a full operating okiya.

Also since the perception of the people outside Japan still see a geisha as a prostitute (and MoaG didn't change that) it is a difficult task.
So for now I think playing Maiko make-believe is the only realistic goal to be achieved.


katsuragi,i just would like to know if you ever have heard about gothic & lolita or Visual kei.Or even about the samba schools they have in Tokyo and in other parts of Japan.People used to belive that western stuff don´t match japaneses,this exemples prooves the oposite

A well-organized businness does fly.It has never been tried,we cant say with sure it won´t work out ,maybe not even that will work out.However,it must be tried.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:23 pm 
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Shikomi
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Yes I have heard about them, but due to the nature of the Japanese society and the urge to let their hair down due to the incredibly strain of work and social commitments. The saying goes: “The nail that sticks up will be hammered down.” (Deru kugi wa utareru).

Therefore it is much easier to make a western concept to be fitted inside Japan then a concept that is designed about the essence of Japan work in the western world. And I'm afraid to admit that we in the west are not exactly very steadfast when it comes to our legacy and heritage (exceptions there).
Whilst we are highly interested in their culture, Japanese have the same fascination towards the western culture. For us is it more of a 'hobby', for them it is more then a past time to go salsa dancing, but an escape from the social strain that weighs upon their shoulders.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:19 pm 
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First Year Maiko
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Katsuragi wrote:
Yes I have heard about them, but due to the nature of the Japanese society and the urge to let their hair down due to the incredibly strain of work and social commitments. The saying goes: “The nail that sticks up will be hammered down.” (Deru kugi wa utareru).

Therefore it is much easier to make a western concept to be fitted inside Japan then a concept that is designed about the essence of Japan work in the western world. And I'm afraid to admit that we in the west are not exactly very steadfast when it comes to our legacy and heritage (exceptions there).
Whilst we are highly interested in their culture, Japanese have the same fascination towards the western culture. For us is it more of a 'hobby', for them it is more then a past time to go salsa dancing, but an escape from the social strain that weighs upon their shoulders.


Yes,i see your point,but in my case,my country has the largest japanese colony in the world,and many cultural manifestations are taking place and being encouraged;many youngster(japaneses and non-japaneses) taking part;i even heard about Teatre NOH group.In this case,it won´t be a problem.

I can´t speak for England or USA,but here a foregner ochaya is a great deal.I mentioned in an other tread that when the emperor visited my country,he wanted to know our geishas and got desapointed when was told there wasn´t any.


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