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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Week: MoaG - Helpful or Harmful?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:39 pm 
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hopeitwillendup wrote:
MOAG is about... aliens... or some African girls.


I never found any of that in the book...

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Week: MoaG - Helpful or Harmful?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:30 pm 
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Minarai
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It was a joke :D
Like, if that is not about geishas, but about something completely different.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Week: MoaG - Helpful or Harmful?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:32 am 
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Senior Maiko
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Ikimaru wrote:
Aaaaand we're back at full circle. Anyone with a brain nows that when you do something life tell your life story or do anything that serious in nature, you get it in writing. Verbal aggreements are much harder to prove in court. Hence why she SETTLED, instead of WON the case.


I didn't say it was a smart move, just that I honestly think she thought she had a spoken contract. I don't think Mineko Iwasaki gave her interview thinking 'I want to make a big deal out of this so that I can write a book and make a movie' or that Golden thought 'I want to screw her over and ruin her reputation'. What I think happened is that Iwasaki thought it was obvious that she wouldn't want to be mentioned, and because of that she only casually mentioned her wish to remain anonymous. Golden probably was of the mindset that it was obvious she would want to be mentioned, and forgot her casual mention of it amidst all of the other information he was dealing with at the time. I do honestly think that at the way beginning of all of this to-do, neither one of them was out for publicity/blood/whatever. Several years later, that's probably a different story.

Ikimaru wrote:
What "Cinderella" ending did Iwasaki have? She retired, closed her Okiya, and played house with an artist.


It's not a perfect analogy, neither is Memoirs, but people do see it (which is why they compare the two). Mineko Iwasaki came from a family that had been in a financial straits, she dealth with a 'mean step-sister' person in her life (she didn't always like her step-mother either), and then finished her story off with marrying a man she loves. I personally think it's weak, but lots of people have said that Iwasaki's life story does follow some of the vaguer cinderella plot lines that have been created in fiction. ...And even more people say that about MoaG, which I do think is true.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Week: MoaG - Helpful or Harmful?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:58 am 
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Senior Maiko
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As I said, I wasn't arguing that she had a contract, just that she probably believed she had one. The legal issues concerning the Iwasaki/Golden case are for another thread. I also said that I personally don't think the Iwasaki/Cinderella comparison is strong either, but that people have made it in the past. And because MoaG has a much stronger cinderella plot, people have thus jumped the gun and said that MoaG must have been based on Iwasaki's life story. Whether or not Golden really did take from Iwasaki's life story is also probably something that can be moved to another thread. There's a possibility that he took small parts of it knowingly, or committed unconcious plagerism, but I don't think anyone could really prove it without having access to Golden's papers and recordings from his interviews with Iwasaki.

I don't think Mineko Iwasaki's personality is an issue here. Just the issues that were going on with MoaG and her issues with Arthur Golden, which did effect MoaG's reputation with the population (to a certain extent), which effected how helpful/harmful/whatever the book and movie were. I honestly don't think Mineko Iwasaki is a great person, but I don't think Arthur Golden or a bunch of other writers, TV personas, etc are great people either. If I met her in person, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have liked her just because our personalities would have clashed big-time, but that doesn't change the fact that her book was very informative to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Week: MoaG - Helpful or Harmful?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:59 pm 
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First Year Maiko
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Ikimaru wrote:

But in conclusion of everything I've said, there's one point I'd like to make very, very clear.

While we all know Author Golden is not the greatest role model to have released such private information at times such as the NPR interview, and in TV appearances, regardless of a verbal contract or not, regardless of the aftershocks of her actions in confiding with them, this is not the first time Iwasaki has acted against the geisha world, the world SHE claims to miss! When she retired, there was some shady stuff that followed, including the RETIREMENT OF OVER SEVENTY GEISHA. She later admitted she may have been responsible for the slump in Geisha population until the late 1980s.

Also, if you do a bit of research, you'll find the so-called heroine of all thing geisha post-moag has a meglomaniac, paraniod, perfectionist personality. She is a human with real flaws people, and I'm getting really tired of everyone jumping to her defense about how Author Golden used her. About how she was "only trying to help" *snorts*. It's obvious she wanted to weasel back into the spotlight. She also was notorious for squashing any competition. Yes, that is part of what a geisha does, is to find ways to improve and to strive to be the best, but this woman took it to the far extreme.

I just ask that everyone realise that maybe Mineko is not Geisha Baby Jesus or something. We're talking about a geisha that used to be my idol, here. But then I realised....sometimes things aren't always what they seem.


You resumed everything. I guess that is what is happening in relation to this issue.Maybe Golden didn´t pay her what he promised and then,she started all that all.Other 2 geishas are mentioned in the end of the book,as well as Liza Dalby and many others,none of them started a legal issue because of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Week: MoaG - Helpful or Harmful?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:38 am 
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First Year Maiko
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My geiko- mania started after I read Mineko' s book. Then I saw that movie Moag... I really liked it at the begining, when I nearly knew nothing about geiko ( I couldn' t make differenceses between a geiko and maiko). Time went by, I took serioulsy my interest for geiko, I read a hell lot about geiko and I realised the moag movie was the worst thing I' ve ever seen before ( make- up and clothing, not to talk about the actors... :cry: ). I haven' t read the book but I'm thinking about it... Do I really need to read it? It cannot give me anything new or true concerning geiko. I know it's just a novell, a product of Golden's fantasy...
I don' t want to offend anyone with my opinion, this is my point of view, I understand if someone don' t agrees.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Week: MoaG - Helpful or Harmful?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:33 am 
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Actually, the book is good. I've read it, and I'd read it again. I also watch MOAG from time to time. It may not be factual or whatever you want to call it, but it's still a beautiful movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Week: MoaG - Helpful or Harmful?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:28 pm 
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Yeah, it has beautiful parts...but the clothing and the make-up and those hairs...it' s something.... :cry: terrible

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the Week: MoaG - Helpful or Harmful?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Shikomi
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This comment has been edited to reflect my change in opinion.

My opinion of MoAG is:

The book sounds pretty, but its glaring inaccuracies (not just about the geisha world, but about Japanese culture in general) casual misogyny and Orientalism have made an older, wiser me never want to read it again. BUT it is what made me want to know more about geisha, so I owe it that much. :)

As for the movie, the only good thing about it is the soundtrack. :|

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