"I absolutely hated Sayuri's and Pumpkin's. Look how terrible Sayuri's kitsuke is in this pic."

Wow, Fuyouhime, her obi in that picture fits like a corset, it's so bizarre!

they did that to almost all the obi's in the movie! it is sad... i don't even think they folded the obi under.

You have to remember, that the movie was, for the most part, targeted towards an American audience. We have no such thing as Geisha. And in our culture, sadly to say, most people go to the movies to see their favorite stars do their thing. As informative as I believe the movie can be, I think the importance of it was to show the stars in a more "romantic" light. I mean, how many men are really going to pay 10 bucks to see woman who are completely covered from head to toe? Not many, I can tell you that. They want to see skin and curves. I'm sure more people who saw the movie were already interested in Geisha. But I am most certain that those who had no idea what a geisha is, were expecting to see on the screen all of the rumors justified. Now, I am not saying that this is right or wrong, but there you have it. The creative minds behind the film had to take some type of privelidges, in order to make the movie more appealing to a variety of different people. The book, is, in fact, fiction...and so is the movie. It is fantastical. And therefore, not reality. It makes me furious, of course, and I am not alone in that emotion. But, that's how movies are made. And that is how the money is made.

Just because it was pegged for an American audience doesn't mean they had to butcher the kitsuke. Most Americans are well aware of the fact that kimono cover most of the body, so there weren't expecting a lot of skin. They were expecting something exotic, and good kitsuke would have been just as exotic as bad kitsuke. I don't believe an ohashori wouldn't have taken away from the oriental flavor either. I get that Marshal wanted to change a few things up, to give an impression of the time period, but impressions are made with the fabrics and the mixing of colors and design techniques, not with the kitsuke. Messing with the dressing really just gave a sloppy impression to those in the know, and why would any director willingly choose to put off some of his audience when he doesn't have to? He could have done it the right way and made the knowledge audience happy while still impressing the newbies.

I really don't think that most people are going to be impressed with the kitsuke, seeing as how the major part of audiences probably have no clue if the pieces were right or wrong. I am not taking up for the failures of the the Director. And sadly, more times than I can count, a director has taken liberties which make the masses happy rather than worrying about the reactions of the few. I have been in theater for many years and I have performed in more shows than I can count and have seen it happen over and over again. In the end, they are more worried about what is going to bring in the most money. And they got it. It's sad, but true.

While we're on this note of directors, and may I also include actors (being one really gives one an inside look at how most of them are) taking liberties...one thing that really chaps my hide is that in the newest Harry Potter film, where the HELL are Dumbledore's glasses? I mean, that is one of his most distinguishing characteristics...his "half-moon spectacles"....

But back on MOAG: Most people going to the movie would have no idea if the kitsuke was right or wrong. The "look" of the movie is what was most important to the director, as well as most general audiences. I mean, take "The Duchess", for example. I don't know if you have read the book...which is wonderful and eye-opening, by the way, but the movie had so many important details ripped away from it. This lady suffered for God's sake! And I mean trial after trial. From Cystitis, to miscarriage after miscarriage, to being cheated on, basically raped, having to give up a child, and so many other things. But in the movie, it was like, "OOPS! my best friend is sleeping with my husband"....and that's it. It does make you angry. Especially since you as an enthusiastic audience member have spent so much time researching. Now, if you hadn't read the Biography or done any previous reserch, you would never know just how bad it was. But, as for MOAG, I think the purpose of the film was to introduce audiences to something they probably have had no education on. The costumes were the least of their worries, except for the way the performers looked in them.

Sometimes, when the director of a movie can't get the simple things such as a character's hair color right, it goes to show how much care goes into getting the rest of it right.

I didn't imply that the audience would know what proper kitsuke looks like, just that they would be aware that a kimono isn't a revealing garment. What I said was that proper kitsuke would not have taken away from the aesthetics of the movie, so Marshall had no reason to mess with it. Sure, the larger audience thought what he did was beautiful, exotic, mystical, whatever, but every person who knows what proper kitsuke looks like was really put off. But, if he had done everything right, the audience would have still gone "Ohhh, a geisha, look at how pretty her kimono is." and the more experienced audience would have also been impressed. Everyone would have been happy, instead of the mixed feelings that got churned up by the sloppy kitsuke Marshall used instead. I also didn't say I have a problem with directors taking liberties, only that Marshall wasn't doing it the right way. Numerous Japanese directors have taken on movies involving this time period, geisha, etc and took liberties. BUT, they did it by changing fabrics and design techniqes along with making small changes to the setting, not the kitsuke. I think using designs that are much bolder than what geisha normally use would have been very effective on screen, so I don't really have a problem with taking liberties. But, a geisha is known for her stylish kitsuke, so changing that changes one of the main images of her vocation. So, it's not that I care that Marshall took liberties per se, it's that he did it in a bad way. The total effect of it was sloppy instead of innovative.

Wow, this is quite the discussion here.

I actually found it kind of funny that there was such a discrepancy in the kitsuke not just from reality but from character to character. Hatsumomo, Mameha and even Okaasan seemed to be more-or-less properly dressed, and Mameha's hairstyles were fairly close to what's currently worn by older modern geiko. I've seen something like Hatsumomo's hairstyle worn for performances, so even that's probably okay. But Saiyuri's uni-bun drove me nuts! It made her head look too small for kimono for one thing. And I didn't like how thin her makeup was. She would have still been really pretty with full blown oshiroi, at least I think.

Also - what was up with young Chiyo wearing tabi with her geta in the rain? Was that done back then? Does anyone know anything about that? And why wasn't Hatsumomo wearing a raincoat over her expensive kimono? I'm pretty sure they had them back then...

Raincoats in Japan have exitsted since pre-history, so yes they did have raincoats in Taisho Period . That particular kimono that she wore in that scene was also worn in the okiya garden scene when everyone finds out about Koichi. It was pouring in that scene, and Hatsumomo was soaked to the bone. So, that kimono dealt with a fair amount of rain, which I think is scary.

The rule about no tabi with geta is fairly new, due to the fact that geta have become much more informal. It used to be that most people wore geta, and a lot of people would wear tabi with them so as to cover their feet. Geta have always been the cheaper footwear between zori and geta, so when kimono fashion was crystalizing into what it is now (something that is supposed to be and look exensive), geta lost ground to zori. Tabi are formalizing, so as the cheap geta became more and more informal, tabi became more and more removed from geta. So, it's not that odd to see the two together (geisha do it all the time), but it is odd to see Chiyo not wearing any rain covers on her feet (it was equally odd for Hatsumomo, just as glaring as the absent raincoat).

On the kitsuke, I would have to disagree and say that while all of them did display vastly different styles, hardly any of them were properly dressed. The only characters that were ever really close to proper dressing were the children, Auntie, and Mother in that their styles of dressing were very plain. All of the geisha characters had kitsuke that was over the top, what with the large amount of shoulder that was shown, the very small display of haneri on the geisha, how low the collar went in the back on all of the geisha when they were dressed casually, the lack of ohashori... I could go on.

Wow! You do know quite a bit about geiko, Fuyohime-san, and history too Thank you very much! You're right about the rain-covers too...

I would have to disagree with the inital cause of the post. The puckering of Hatsumomo's sleeve is ungodly awful. The hem at her wrist is uneven. I think the designer probably ordered the embriodery and the fabric, drank a dozen margharitas, then attempted to sew in a straight line.

UGH!

The initial cause of the post was only to show my appreciation for the detail on the kimono, i.e., the spiderweb. As a performer and a costume designer, I value excellent detail like that and I thought I would share it. I am not agreeing with the missteps taken with the kitsuke, but the detailed artwork on the kimono itself is terrific.