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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:04 pm 
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Shikomi
Shikomi

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:12 pm
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I think Mineko Iwasaki said in her book that she would sometimes take small sips and pour her drink out when no one was looking. I'm sure geisha have found creative ways to deal with this issue!


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:59 am 
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Junior Geiko
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yeah, or sh said she would refuse them when she was under the age limit..20 in japan no? until.. the magic cup game at the tea ceremony... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:53 pm 
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Favorite Geiko: Miehina
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Here's something interesting about Geisha and drinking: http://www.cupblog.org/?p=404

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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:43 am 
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Shikomi
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:19 am
Posts: 12
I have had the honor to meet the last geisha of Yoshiwara (Tokyo)--she is 90 or 91. She drinks sake pretty much throughout the day, as far as I can tell. We asked her to perform at our lesson studio (keikoba), and someone poured out a small glass for her before she performed...

It seems to be a major part of her nutrition--she is of that very 'light-as-a-feather' slender and small build. She is quite genki and healthy...and for many more years, I hope! :D

Regards,
JL


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:25 pm 
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Favorite Geiko: Miehina
Favorite Maiko: Mametomi
Oh, you got to meet Minako? How awesome! She seems to be quite the character.

By the way, welcome to the forum!

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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:11 pm 
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Shikomi
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:19 am
Posts: 12
Yes, I think Minako-nesan is awesome!

I never thought of looking for her on youtube until last night. Someone put up a Japanese tv show segment on her. The avatar suggested someone from here put it up. Thank you!

You can find it buy searching for 'yoshiwara minako' on youtube. Or ask me for the link (too lazy to chase it down now).

You can practice your Japanese listening comprehension, or at least hear her sing and play. Her voice is still very strong!

She has put out a memoir which I am reading now (very slowly--my reading ability is not really up to snuff). I will ask her to sign it for me the next time I see her.

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JL


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:01 pm 
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Oh you saw that video? That's actually my YouTube channel.

I would like to get that book but I would have a heck of a hard time reading it. Maybe if I take some Japanese lessons.

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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:21 pm 
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Misedashi
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:34 am
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Location: Ukiyo
Favorite Geiko: [Mameyoshi][Kotoha]
Favorite Maiko: [Fukusato][Tanewaka]
I've been re-reading Liza Dalby's Geisha and in the notes for chapter 6 (note 4) she writes: "Drinking is such a large part of a geisha's job that it can be considered an occupational hazard. Even women who definitely should not drink because of their health must still pretend to do so. Geisha help each other disguise the fact of not drinking, and some of their ruses are quite ingenious. A symbolic sip in front of the customer satisfies the social necessity to take the cup, and he need not notice that most of the sake is dumped into the bowl of rinse water provided on the table. An older geisha can more easily get away with not drinking for medical reasons. She may sometimes call a younger woman to down her cup by proxy."

Given that this was the 70s, and alcohol is almost as old as man, I don't think it has changed too much. I'm just speaking from speculation. I thought I'd share that here, because I don't know what to think about the topic really. Japan strikes me as a country that really loves its alcohol (though what country doesn't?) and so I would think girls being paid to celebrate and have a good time would drink. Probably not in excess at any one party, though I'm sure the drinks add up over the night. Not to mention, Dalby talks a lot about going to bars to cool down after 'work', where they drink again, so I can imagine it would damage the women over time, seeing how much they work.

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Last edited by Kikuyo on Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:02 pm 
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Misedashi
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would it be rude if the geisha openly refuses to drink? As far i could notice,it seems they are "obligated" to drink in ozashikis as a part of their jobs...but i imagine they are contracted to entertain guests,how a drunk person can entertain without causing trouble? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:11 pm 
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Misedashi
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:34 am
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Favorite Geiko: [Mameyoshi][Kotoha]
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I think it would be rude depending on how she refused. If she politely explains she has a health condition, or some other excuse, I would think it is perfectly passable. To flat out say "no" in any Japanese situation is rude, they like to dance around it XD, quite politely.

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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:23 pm 
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Misedashi
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Kikuyo wrote:
I think it would be rude depending on how she refused. If she politely explains she has a health condition, or some other excuse, I would think it is perfectly passable. To flat out say "no" in any Japanese situation is rude, they like to dance around it XD, quite politely.


eheheheh yes,can be :bunny: ..but i imagine the clients are persistent and in the end,she would be drinking as well as she wouldn´t be able to keep these excuses all the time in all ozashikis.I would like to know if the geisha has the right of stating she won´t drink in any circustance.

Ah,i herad about this "not say no" issue once.My sister had a japanese teacher in the university and he never denied anything,but gave other "possibilities" to the matter :giggle:

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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:59 am 
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Misedashi
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Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 3:14 am
Posts: 210
At every ozashiki I've been too, I, the other guests, and most of the geiko get slammed. Some of the geiko, like Mao, Mamesuzu, and Ichiyuri loooove them some alcohol, but most are moderate drinkers. The maiko have to drink too, but the geiko keep them from drinking too much. The only way a geiko could really get sloppy drunk is if she's with the party for the whole night and therefore has to partake constantly, or if she's total crap at asobi. I'm not a huge drinker myself, but I always felt pressured to drink at parties, water is never available, and honestly it's more fun if you're a bit tipsy.
My christmas ozashiki is coming up and my guests are NOT drinkers, in fact most of them don't drink on principal. or speak japanese. so we'll see how that goes o__o;;


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha lifestyles and liver damage
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:56 am 
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Misedashi
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:34 am
Posts: 221
Location: Ukiyo
Favorite Geiko: [Mameyoshi][Kotoha]
Favorite Maiko: [Fukusato][Tanewaka]
I'm "straightedge"... no alcohol, no drugs, no smoking, never even been to a party for these reasons... so I'm very curious as to how non-drinkers enjoy ozashiki... if such a crowd even existed o_o If it isn't too much to reveal, I'd love to know how it went fun-wise, how the games were done sans-alcohol and such.

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