your welcome...off topic, gong li was awesome in curse of the golden flower......

Off topic too (lol), but i did my talk in english today! But sadly i was so nevous i didnt say half the things i wanted to, i did the talk on Geiko!

enough off topic please. this is already a big thread and one of the most visited discussions. it's hard enough to keep up with it, so please don't start off topic posts. : ))

don't forget, you can start a thread about nothing really important and of topic in the ochaya!

thank you! : )

Thanks Sumi-san! Could i start one about Asian Actors and Actresses?

yes you can start one of course in general forum

Thank-you! So, Sumi-san? Do i just do a topic on it?

EDIT: Forgot to add what I thought about the book!

I actually liked the book despite the stereotype of Hatsumomo and how sometimes Sayuri came across as inconsistent and...I dunno, sometimes it just bugged me how she was like, "And people were like, "You're so beautiful Sayuri!" and I had no idea what they were talking about!" I just wanted Hatsumomo do give her a big ol' bruise sometimes. I actually liked how Hatsumomo was hyped up to be the typical rival-type b*tch because it just made it better when she did something that was almost human. I kinda wish there was a novel about her or Pumpkin. I liked their characteristics better than boring, grandpa-chasing Sayuri.

Maybe there was and maybe there wasn't some Western ideals thrown in there. I wouldn't know (I still have a hard time swallowing the fact that Sayuri found such an interest in the Chairman when he was so old and she was so young - I get that he was nice to her and all...but...). I liked that it was Cinderella-ish because I like those types of stories. But I guess it might have been fun to see it differently now that I know a little better. Someone needs to come up with their own version...better yet...Geisha-lore/fiction needs to become its own genre to feed the demands of people like me!

MoAG book-wise, was very good at getting me to want to know more. That's what's different though about books and film. People who read MoAG probably are more likely to go read something else related to learn more because that's how this type of medium works. Film on the other hand, doesn't always work that way (though sometimes it does).

Now as for the movie....

I will say that after watching the movie at first it left me with a lot more questions about the geisha world. Mostly because I felt some or most of it had to be inaccurate...and as I started to look up more information that led to more and more questions and my desire to learn.

In that respect, I think MOAG did me some good, but that's because I knew better than to take things at face value. I don't think a lot of that people that saw the movie initially felt the need to learn the facts but rather decided to take it as a sort of documentary.

I actually liked the extra features on the DVD because it made me appreciate the movie a little more. Like, I mean, I understand what Marshall was trying to do. Unfortunately, the majority of the people who are very into the culture were not happy with his artistic interpretation. He was more concerned about glorifying and beautifying it to Western standards than emphasizing the beauty that was already there, claiming it "wouldn't translate well on film."

I do have a problem with Marshall as a film director because he's more of a theater/dancer type. He should stick the stage. His visions are pretty but...that's all they are. Because he's used to the stage and being a dancer, his mentality is that "it has to visually appeal to the audience or I'm going to lose them." But when it comes to film you have to have more substance than that. Now, I know very well that not everyone who is a stage performer or dancer would approach a film that way, but Rob Marshall consistently strikes me as the sort of person who always does.

Anyhow, that's the end of that rant.

I kinda wish Marshall decided to make it more documentary style, like how Christopher Nolan does his films. Oooh, can you imagine if the same brilliant director who did Batman Begins/The Prestige/Dark Knight would've done Memoirs? *swoon* Christian Bale as the Chairman. <3 Who cares if he's not Japanese?

And I'm kinda surprised that the director decided to not take it in that direction since the book is kinda written like an autobiography. o.O

So....on a related note, someone brought up that they cast people who didn't have qualities desirable in a geisha..

What are the qualities if I may ask? I see pictures of geisha sometimes and wonder what makes them a 'perfect geisha' and that may be perhaps because I don't know what I'm supposed to look for. xP Or it could be just good ol' personal preference.

I, too, thought the actress who played Pumpkin looked like a cute maiko but I also that Hatsumomo's actress, Gong Li, was stunning. o:

I don't think it's that hard to believe that Sayuri liked the Chairman despite age differences. The Chairman was about 45 when the book opens, and apparently aged well. He was sophisticated, worldly, and interesting. I would have liked him. Besides, the culture didn't stress that people marry close to their own age, and it was a given that Sayuri's danna would be much older than her. If she had for some reason married, her husband would have been quite a bit older than her as well.

Then there's the fact that once Sayuri became an adult, their mental maturity levels would have been even, so the age difference became moot. It wouldn't have been any different than if there was only a 3 year difference between them as opposed to the 3 decade difference.

I guess it just felt to me that she barely knew him and the whole thing wasn't as romantic as it could have been - at least in my opinion. I know that's how it would have been with a danna, anyway, but she wasn't expected to love her danna.

I would have expected sayuri to show a little bit more emotional when the chairman told her about his feelings, i would have thought that she would have forgot about being a geisha for once and leap into his arms!

Everything what was good and what was wrong about the film and book has bin said allready, so I will not discuss that.
Nevertheless, I DO think that the biggest possitive result is, that it focused the Geisha world and awakened the interest of millions of People.
The Film has been showed WORLDWIDE. The Ads-campagne was rolling for weeks, if not months!

No other film or documentary has achieved this result, neither from foreign nor japanese filmmakers.
And even up untill today, I don't know of any film, book or documentary that explains ALL the aspects and details of the Geiko and Maiko world.

The interrest for japanese culture, Kimono etc DID increase, you can get more japanese items f.a. at Ebay then BEFORE the film. Think of all the Kimono sellers, Katsura's etc etc etc you can buy now. And only a few are so clever to present their Items in englisch(aswell that is), websites often are only in Japanese.... Again this gives only access to some happy few..

So, if we like it or not, up untill now, Mr.A.G did more for the new awakening interrest for this Geisha-World, than any other before or after him.

I've read the book and saw the film and I think it has done eqqualy good and bad - it started a topic, many people started reasearching (myself including!) which led to more awarness about who and what a geisha is. Yet, some people stood to thinking what the film said, and that is not too good (yet, still better than the average 'pretty-and-expensive-dancing-prostitute-attitude) Geisha were thought of as prostitutes, and in a way the film gave people something to think of... Yet, the film bleched out many things, that for example Liza Dalby speaks of. Yet, moral standarts for the West are different than the Japanese (I wrote about it in my article about courtesans). It's very difficult to understand geisha without considering the way the Japanese think, and this is what MoaG lacks - an insight into a Japanese mind.

I hope I make myself clear ^^'

For the book - was very good. The story - beautiful. But just a story. That movie doesn't show what is a real geisha's life. I'm very happy that many poeples start to intresting in japanese culture and geisha after read this book but what is iritating me in film? just look at wareshonobu and costumes. i'm so sad that they did it like that. and how i sad: i really love this story but i can't take it seriously as a infromation about geisha's life style.

I agree with you, Fukuyoshi.
This film is good only for beginners...