Well, this topic has been bouncing from thread to thread, especially pertaining to Gion Kobu. We don't really know for sure who is onee-san to who. What do you think? Do you think it's a Maiko to Maiko sistership, or groups of girls under one older sister?

For instance, there's the debate of the Ninben girls. It's been guessed that Mamehana's onee-san is Mamechiho, but was meant to be little sister to Mamesaho, but didn't happen because of Mamesaho's departure.

A theory of my own, going by Kotoha's Erikae pamphlet and a few known sister bonds in Gion Kobu, is that an older sister, like a well reknowned Geiko, is chosen as Onee-san.

Well, let the debate begin!

This should be quite interesting!

Mellisa Chasse wrote here that Mamehana is Mamechihos imoto-san:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mboogiedown/875928450/

While Melissa is well knowledgeable about a lot of things, I'm not sure if she'd really know who was a bonded little sister to Mamehana. Melissa also has said that Suzuha and Kotoha were bonded as sisters, but Kotoha's Erikae papers say differently. Besides, had they been together in that way, I think Suzuha would've stuck around a little longer, at least until she turned her collar. . .

Mamehana was also escorted on her Misedashi by Mamehiro, at least for part of it, and not Mamechiho.

It's quite clear that Katsuya is Katsuru's onee-san, while Umeha is Umehisa's onee-san.
Naokazu and Naosome's onee-san could be Naosuzu or Naohiro, though it's more likely Naosuzu for Naokazu.
The Ichi-sisters are a big mystery. Maybe Umeshizu for Ichimomo? But then Ichimame and Ichiteru... Umeshizu was still a senior maiko back then. >.>

I have some misedashi and erikae tenegui that were given to me, I'll take pictures of them tonight...

Ok, here you go ladies, go to town. Sexy futon is sexy:

Koyoshi and Kosuzu





Katsufumi and Katsuma

again, i think it got lost somewhere in different topics: ichimame was never the onesan to any ichi-girl and she doesn't have an onesan for herself as far as we know.
ichimame, ichiteru and ichimomo all learnd from umeshizu and from each other but not in that kind of sister-relation we are calling onesan.


ewoodham so, now we know for sure that kosuzu is koyoshis onesan and katsuma katsufumis, right? that's quite interesting... i whish we had more papers like this!

Aaaand once again, Kosuzu and Katsuma are both Natori Geiko. So far, all of our confirmed big sisters are natori Geiko.

Mamehiro - Mamehana, Mamechiho, Mamesome, Mamesaho, ( maybe Mamechika as well? )
Tamaha - Kotoha ( perhaps the rest of the ha girls or split between Fukuha. )

and now
Kosuzu - Koyoshi
Katsuma - Katsufumi

Would there be anyway to find out who the other little sisters are to these Geiko are? If we can tally more and more names of current Maiko and even young Geiko, we can come to a better conclusion. Four pieces of confirmed data is just not enough. :/

Still, now it makes me wonder if Mameteru is little sister to Mamesuzu? Maybe they have the same Onesan?

Found a few of those tenegui's on Yahoo auctions

Believe this was for Mamehide's Misedashi. Don't know who the older sister is, could be the kanji for Mamehiro, but my Kanji reading is non existant.

Here is the other links. Busy right now, no time to try to translate.

http://www.rinkya.com/twview.pl?URL=http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/127898905
http://www.rinkya.com/twview.pl?URL=http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w42649235
http://www.rinkya.com/twview.pl?URL=http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h134105754
http://www.rinkya.com/twview.pl?URL=http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m69186185
http://www.rinkya.com/twview.pl?URL=http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e96328167

This is a different Mamehide. I think older sisters name is Mameroku.

Ah, thanks Miehina! I saw Mamehide, took a wild guess there. My kanji and Hiragana abilities are rather subpar as I've only been learning for a few weeks. I've yet to learn the nuances.

Question, Miehina, did you see that odori program on y!japan for Miyako Odori that looks to be from the early - late 90's with a few important names in it just from the pictures?

I like this discussion
It would make sense if older sisters were always natori geiko; who better to learn from? Is this just the case for Gion Kobu though? Do the other hanamachi have natori geiko too?
I'm still confused by the Kikuyu-Kikuno relationship, the documentary showed them being bonded as sisters in the sansankudo ceremony while Kikuno was still a maiko. Does Miyagawacho have different rules for older sisters like they do for sakkou?

Tsuruko, I had a go at translating some of those tenigui; my kanji reading is far from perfect though so hopefully someone more knowledgeable can help too

Tenugui 1 looks like Fukumaru on the far left and maybe Fukuchō on the right, according to the geisha library Fukuchō is a retired maiko from Miyagawacho.

Tenugui 2 could be Pontocho geiko Fudeya on the right, I can't read all of the first name but the last kanji looks like -maru.
Sorry if that's entirely wrong, I find japanese cursive so hard to read

Same here, Jamjars, I haven't a problem reading what I know so far when it's in nice font script on websites, but everything else just goes right out the window when it's that fluid cursive script.

I am really unsure about the Kikuno - Kikuyuu relationship. Miyagawa-cho does seemed to allow young Geiko the opportunity of little sisters, specifically very successful ones. Fukunao and Toshihana are good examples of this. I do know if Kikutsuru has taken any little sisters.

Kikuno may have been a special example and I do believe she had a very successful career as a Maiko and is still quite popular as a Geiko. She may have already, at that point decided to become a Geiko, and maybe the Okiya allowed it? I am not sure. The kiku- house seems to boast very successful and endeavored young Geisha and seem to only take in those who are exceptionally serious. In our retired lists, there is only one Kiku- Geisha on it, so that might have something to do with it! For now, who knows! Miyagawa-cho and Kamishichiken seem to allow reasonably young Geiko to become older sisters, while Gion Kobu, from what proof we have, favors well trained Geiko who've been at their arts for 5+ years past Maiko-dom. I am unsure yet of Pontocho or Gion Higashi. We need more information! XD

Hi Tsuruko

There was a document on youtube about tsuruha becoming a shikomi in the tama okiya, and it showed mameteru´s misedashi. The dresser (?) that followed her to the ochayas once announced that mameteru´s big sister is mamesono.
I don´t know that much, in fact I don´t even know who mamesono is but I remember the dresser announcing that.

Thank you for that piece of information!

Mamesono, according to our list, is another Natori Geiko. . .

Interesting, interesting.