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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:41 am 
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Favorite Geiko: Miehina
Favorite Maiko: Mametomi
To me it looks like Fukuzuru (ふく鶴) rather than Fukuchou. If only the photo was taken closer!

I'm thinking those Tenugui are rather old because I only know two of those names, Fudeya and Mameroku from Ponto-cho.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:33 pm 
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Minarai
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Favorite Geiko: Kotoha Suzuha Kokimi
Favorite Maiko: Kosen HisamariKazuha
here is tenugui with names Manaha, Mayuha, Tamaha and Takeha. If I remember correctly Mayuha isn't natori geiko yet.
So it looks as if the Tama girls have more than one onesan (?)

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Misedashi
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I am thinking no on the multiple oneesan bit. My theory is that they have put the entire chain of oneesans on there, probably the ones that are still alive anyway (Takeha is at least 74 by now, so her oneesan would at absolute minimum be like.... 90 or something lol). They put both Tamaha and Takeha on Kotoha's tenugui too.

But I think it's clear that in Gion Kobu, maiko-maiko relationships are probably very very rare.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:43 am 
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Minarai
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Seeing this discussion reminded me of the Ikuokaya shop in Gion which has some misedashi papers displayed outside. I went there today and took a picture (click the picture to enlarge it).

(From left to right) Top: Mamemaru/Yoshimame (jikata geiko), Marie/Manami/Makoto, Mamesaku/Mameji Bottom: Chisako/Sayoko

This shop has lots of interesting stuff. Last time I went there they had Teruyuki and Suzuha's Sashigami displayed inside (these are triangular pieces of paper, distributed on retirement and have the professional name and real name written on them).

Incidentally, you can see Miehina going in the shop in this video posted by Andrew.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:55 am 
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Natori Geiko
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that shop is amazing!

quite interesting, that mamemaru has yoshimame as big sister...
is mameji also onesan to mamefusa and mametomi? then all the three girls would be under her.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:26 pm 
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Senior Maiko
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I love that store, I'd go there all the time XD.

I had a feeling Mametomi wasn't Mamesaku's oneesan, but I totally forgot about Mameji being a possible oneesan. I thought her oneesan might have been Mameyoshi... This discussion really makes me want to go back and look over all of the pairings I thought I knew.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Toshi No Miya
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momoyama wrote:
(From left to right) Top: Mamemaru/Yoshimame (jikata geiko),


could that be a sign that she wants to become later on a jikata as well?? or perhaps she was chosen as onesan for another reason... :idea:

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:38 pm 
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Misedashi
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Mameyoshi had a seat of honor at Mamesaku's misedashi, so weird. There were pictures of it in the latest gion newsletter, I'll scan it if I can find a scanner


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:20 pm 
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Toshi No Miya
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take a picture of it, will do as well. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:07 am 
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Senior Maiko
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Mameyoshi also seemed important when I saw her during Mamesaku's misedashi. She came out to talk to one of the photographers who got special access to take fancy shots, and she was telling him what kind of shots the okiya wanted. I thought that was something the Okaasan would do, so the fact that Mameyoshi was doing that seemed weird. That's why I thought Mameyoshi might have been her oneesan.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:27 am 
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Natori Geiko
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mh... i told a friend (who is actually not that interested in maiko and geiko) about our sister-discussion, and after i gave her some basic information she said: "maybe they have one big sister and another one who would take over the responsibility for sure, some kind of second patron."
- would that be possible? having two onesan wouldn't be bad...
there are some varieties for me:
1. one big-big sister (like tamaha or someone) who can just tell you everything and one big sister who is more the all-day-big-sister, that shows you the work at ozashiki and how to tie up your kimono or sleep on a wodden pillow. also it would be an experience for the younger geiko (or maiko?) of those two onesan, she could learn how to be a big sister and be te big-big one one day too.
2. a maiko has one onesan who takes care of her and a second one who is important to her, but actually there if the first onesan has to retire or quits.

just thinking... actually it's pretty early in the morning and i didn't sleep yet, so the chance to talk foolish stuff here is much higher :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:26 pm 
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Toshi No Miya
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Favorite Geiko: Wakana and Suzuko
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/mithril/40 ... 4/sizes/l/

to bad it's so small... we could have found out some more big sister - little sister relationships

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:10 pm 
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Minarai
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Favorite Geiko: Komomo and Kikuno
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Ichisumi wrote:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mithril/40 ... 4/sizes/l/

to bad it's so small... we could have found out some more big sister - little sister relationships


It's not that small if you go on original size Ichisumi , I can see Mamechiho's misedashi paper on the second row from the bottom, 5th from the left. It has her oneesan as Mamehiro, and next to that is Yoshimame.
The paper next to hers is Mameyuri's.
I'm sure someone with better kanji-reading ability than me can read a few more.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the week: Little sister to whom?!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:39 pm 
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Minarai
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Favorite Geiko: Kotoha Suzuha Kokimi
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I see:

the first row:
Ichisuzu - Ichikiku

the second row:
Teruyuki - Teruchiyo
Mamechika - Mamehiro, Yoshimame
Mamesome - Mamehiro, Yoshimame
Ichikazu - Ichisuzu
Mamefusa- Mameji

the third row:
Mameaki - Mameji
Mamesada - Mameji
Terukoma- Terutoyo, Teruchiyo
Ichiyuri - Ichisuzu
Mamesaho - Mamehiro, Yoshimame
Mamechiho - Mamehiro, Yoshimame
Kyouka - Kimika
Makino - Manoka, Mayuko

the fourfh row:
Koyoshi - Kosuzu
Kimichiyo - Kimika

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