Oof, been a bit! Here were are!

Mineko Iwasaki, from several sources, has criticized the modern Maiko and Geiko of Kyoto, saying they were not as good as they were in her hay day! Others might agree, saying that the Hanamachi now take in any girl who wants to be a Geisha.

What do you feel about this? Do you think that the Hanamachi have had to cut their standards for the sake preservation?

Do you perhaps believe that Geisha from the Pre-War might've thought the same of Mineko's generation?

well, we all know the Hanamachi's have bent the rules a bit to allow more girls in. they havent really cut their standards, maybe just changed them to fit modern times. Thay just don't let anybody join. they still have to submit an application, and go through the selection process.

Now mineko Iwasake, she might have been the best of her time, and all girls might not be as good as she was, but the girls of today still have intense training,just like she did, the girls might be younger then her but i think they're just as good as her generation was. and as ive said, yes some rules about the training may have changed to make more girls interested. And we all know the reason for that, so the tradition doesn't die. Look how well its worked. So far hanamachi's are getting new girls in and new girls debuting alot now. Gion kobu alone reached a record amount of girls(over 102 total) that they hadn't had in over i think it was 50 years. I think the Older geisha of years before Iwasake-san would say that she had it easier aswell. Before mineko's time, girls were sold to the houses by poor families, they weren't allowed to leave the hanamachi, and if they got caught the towns people would return her and she would be beaten, the training was even harder too. Through all the years the flower and willow world, well, it has changed to fit the times to stay Alive. and i'm sure the generation of geisha before the pre ww2 gen. would say the same.

I think the whole thing of mineko-chan saying that the new girls have it easy is with how the girls from differnt generations look down upon the younger. Like My Mother and I. she always says, your generation has it easier then we did when i was your age. we didn't have blah blah blah, and we didn't get to do blah blah blah. Thats the way its always been.

so the geisha world and its rules have changed, but it is in the sake of preservation. its either do or die for them.

well said toshiteru-san! i am of your opinion and i second on the thing about you and your mother - it is the same for me and i think it is the same all over the world in every time.
i think in this times the big test for the girls is to make the decision that they want to become a geiko. in the past it was a normal job, even in minekos time it was more common than today. today the girls have to refuse a huge part of their normal, modern life, what i think is pretty hard. they have to convince their families, friends,... and theirselfes, because a modern life is easier than the life a as maiko/geiko.

I have to say that they have. But no one would be joining the hanamachi if things where like they used to be. Lessons where much harder, you had to be the "ultimate perfection" in their eyes. Movements and manners, impeccable. And you couldn't just leave the house unattended. You had to have a chaperone. If they didn't take any girl nowadays, this tradition would most likely die out. And of course they are bending rules to suit the lives of these woman so that they will stay and continue.

Personally... I would want to have been a maiko or geiko back in those days. I would want to be the best that I could be! If I became a maiko or geiko today I would want that type of schooling.

I don't think more personal freedom has caused a fall in the standards of the maiko and geiko. Just because they don't need a chaperone doesn't mean that they still don't go through intense training.

Many girls still drop out all the time, so it can't be that easy.

Bemoaning the woes of the modern generation is something older generations like to do all the time. I'll trust Mineko when she talks about the rigors of geiko training, but when she starts talking down about the current generation, well...

I think the whole thing of mineko-chan saying that the new girls have it easy is with how the girls from differnt generations look down upon the younger. Like My Mother and I. she always says, your generation has it easier then we did when i was your age. we didn't have blah blah blah, and we didn't get to do blah blah blah. Thats the way its always been.

LOL XD.Well said.I personally think that adolescent nowadays have more confort and easy access to many things that didn´t exist when i were in my teenagerhood.

In relation to Mineko´s opinion,that´s contraditory.She retired in the benining of her 30s because she didn´t agree with the hard rules of Gion .I´m lost now.

true, my mom is always talking about the first Nintendo and how the only game was pong? and then rant about me playing wii and PS2...... true like cell phones vs. the bricks... *insert dun dun dunnn music here*

true she retired early and is now talking down about our modern girls.

Mineko may also be saying this because today there are more technologies available to help the girls. I.E on the docu about Kikuyu we see her watching videos of girls dancing to help her learn the moves, i spose in Mineko's time she would've had to watch and learn in her lessons much harder, or be punished for slacking off.

i never saw kikuyuu watching videos of the dances... maybe are you refering to the videos of Yukina and Masato dancing as children.?

ah, its been a while since i've watched it so possibly, but it would be smart if they did watch dance videos, might help them...

That do makes sense in a certain point of view.

Personally i feel myself uncorfortable when i see maikos and geikos exposing their lives in blogs.By the other hand,i wouldn´t see any problem in allowing apprentices to watch videos to improove their arts.

true the vidoes are a good way to learn... thank you youtube!lol

I really do think the standards have droped!


Not just from Mineko's book because if you read books about geiko in the olden days it was so much stricter and harder! Im not saying i want new shikomi to go through alot of pain its just i think that its easier to become one!

But in the other hand i think the okaasans might have made it easier so shikomi/maiko stay on and dont leave! Because the hanamachi is smaller than it once used to be and they are in desprite need of new shikomi!

what might have changed is, that if a girl quits now, she knows she can go back to school or what so ever. in the old days... if you weren't good, which means a good artist, in the hanamachi, you wouldn't earn enough money to buy your kimonos etc because there were so many maikos and geikos! It's diffrent now. less maikos and geikos, less competition, less girls who really want to become the best because they know there will be enough clients for all. There are girls that are more dedicated than others and i think that those girls practice harder than others. in my eyes, they got the talent and are smart. they know, only a good one will survive, because beauty won't help you forever. there will always be a cuter girl or a more beautiful geisha.

Mineko was one of those girls, that just want to become the best in what they do. It's normal for artists to judge the others and think that they don't practice enough or aren't pretty enough. So i wouldn't say the standarts are dropping, just not every girl is dedicated to the art as Mineko was. ; )